Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  20

  Rationality could be found in Scriptures!

  by abiather in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  though religions have done enough harm to mankind, it often has to do with the exclusive attitude most of them developed misinterpreting the scriptures.

  thus scriptures were blamed for all the misdeeds of religions.

  this was precipitated by certain verses in scriptures which are obviously interpolated by those with vexed interest..

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  Island Man

  Hence it is an interpolation of those who have no sense of RATIONALITY!
  (Now it follows: If this is interpolation, then its greater story of ransom sacrifice too falls into this category. It could be even this way--to give credential to ransom teaching, interpolators wanted some precedent, hence created story of Abraham)
  Story of Abraham’s obedience lacks rationality throughout. God delays the birth of a child, and then permits birth. If God then asks for sacrifice of that child, Abraham will not hesitate as he had experienced the gift of God. That too, when God himself asks, who will hesitate. In this sense also, there is no logic or rationality!

  Abiathar, what I see in you is a man so desperate to hold on to his irrational faith in an ancient book being the word of God, that rather than accept the clear evidence of its very human authorship he resorts to very creative and irrational gymnastic reasoning by separating the inconvenient evidence away from the book by calling it "interpolations". You are clearly in denial. You see the obvious folly in many bible accounts but you're not honest enough with yourself to accept and follow this evidence to its logical conclusion - that the bible is not the word of God. 

  Instead, you conveniently make up your own rules to fix the game in your favor. You are like a woman whose husband commits murder and out of sheer desperation in her unwillingness to accept that her husband did it she labels all the mountains of evidence against him as being planted or all lies. By your disingenuous reasoning, you essentially make your holy book unfalsifiable because any evidence in the text that demonstrates its fallible nature and very human origin is quickly labeled by your as an interpolation. Unfalsifiable claims are bogus claims! Your reasoning reveals that you are living in denial.

  What happens 2000 years from now when human enlightenment progresses further and the biblical claims that you now accept as moral is exposed as immoral? What are the likes of you gonna do then - label those bible accounts as interpolations also? You're just resorting to desperate tactics in bid to make your ancient book written by less enlightened men living in a harsh ancient culture look good in our more modern and more enlightened world.
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  16

  Fun with the book of Job

  by sowhatnow in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  fun with the book of jobjob ch 1 vs4 they celebrated birthdays.

  ] and it was several days long...new international version4 his sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.orother version...4 his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

  [how would a jw twist the following scripture that says job offered a sin offering in case the sinned...]5.after a series of banquet days was complete, job would send for them in order to sanctify them.

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  Island Man

  "It was an ego trip for God."

  Exactly! And poor Job is used and abused as God's pawn to make his point.
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  16

  Preaching... a requirement for baptism?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i have been doing some reading lately.

  i have yet to bump into the text that show that preaching is a requirement to qualify for baptism.

  in fact, i have read more paragraphs that say otherwise.

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  Island Man

  StarTrekAngel: "Is baptism a requirement for salvation."

  It depends. If you can get baptized then you really should, in obedience to what the scriptures teach. But if circumstances make your baptism impossible then God will not hold it against you. It's kinda like committing fornication versus being raped. The former is deliberate disobedience and the latter is beyond your control. The circumstances of the criminal who died next to Jesus, made baptism impossible for him.
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  16

  Fun with the book of Job

  by sowhatnow in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  fun with the book of jobjob ch 1 vs4 they celebrated birthdays.

  ] and it was several days long...new international version4 his sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.orother version...4 his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

  [how would a jw twist the following scripture that says job offered a sin offering in case the sinned...]5.after a series of banquet days was complete, job would send for them in order to sanctify them.

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  Island Man

  And speaking of fun with Job. Has anyone commented on the fact that the account plainly shows that it was only Jobs sons that held these banquets and his daughters didn't or couldn't? They attended their brothers' banquets but evidently couldn't have their own. Further evidence of how women are shoved in the background and denied the rights and privileges afforded to men.
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  16

  Fun with the book of Job

  by sowhatnow in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  fun with the book of jobjob ch 1 vs4 they celebrated birthdays.

  ] and it was several days long...new international version4 his sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.orother version...4 his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

  [how would a jw twist the following scripture that says job offered a sin offering in case the sinned...]5.after a series of banquet days was complete, job would send for them in order to sanctify them.

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  Island Man

  "So, it is possible that Job would send and sanctify his sons after each multi-day banquet was completed."

  Ahh! Thank you for that clarification. It makes more sense now.
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  16

  Fun with the book of Job

  by sowhatnow in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  fun with the book of jobjob ch 1 vs4 they celebrated birthdays.

  ] and it was several days long...new international version4 his sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.orother version...4 his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

  [how would a jw twist the following scripture that says job offered a sin offering in case the sinned...]5.after a series of banquet days was complete, job would send for them in order to sanctify them.

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  Island Man

  Cappytan, I'm not convinced the banquets held by Job's sons were birthday banquets for one reason: Job 1:5 indicates that Job would offer sacrifices when the banqueting had "gone round the circuit". That expression indicates that the banquets were held one after the other and the whole affair was concentrated within a small period of time in the year - about a month or two at most. Is it very reasonable to think that Jobs sons were all born so close together on the calendar? If it were birthdays it would be spread out throughout the year and there would be no talk about festivities going around in a circuit and job offering sacrifices at the end. They would be spread out throughout the year and job would be offering sacrifices at the end of each one.  
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  16

  Preaching... a requirement for baptism?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i have been doing some reading lately.

  i have yet to bump into the text that show that preaching is a requirement to qualify for baptism.

  in fact, i have read more paragraphs that say otherwise.

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  Island Man

  Not only is preaching not a requirement to qualify for baptism, but, contrary to what Watchtower teaches, the work of active formal evangelizing is not even required of all christians!

  And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers - Ephesians 4:11

  JWs treat qualifying for baptism as if it were passing your college exams to graduate from college. But in reality, qualifying for baptism is more like meeting the basic requirements to enter into college.

  When you look at the NT it is clear that one only needs to know the good news about Jesus, repent, and exercise faith in him to qualify for baptism. They grow in knowledge and understanding and mature further, after they're already baptized.

  Something else about JW baptism that is clearly unscriptural is the long delay that candidates have to wait between qualifying and actually being baptized. The scriptures show that those who qualified were baptized teh same day that they were convinced. (Acts 2:41; Acts 8:36-38; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 16:33; Acts 22:16) The NT indicates that those who qualified were baptized immediately, without delay. Peter didn't even wait for Cornelius to resign from the army before baptizing him! JWs let baptismal candidates wait up to 6 months or however long until the next assembly or convention, before being baptized. The urgency of the person's salvation has to take a back seat to gloating and grandstanding over new recruits at the convention.

  Imagine a scenario where a person is qualified to be baptized but he obeys the elders and the organization by delaying his baptism until the convention. But the end comes before the convention! Jesus says to him:

  "Why are you not baptized?"

  Person: "I already qualify and would be - would have been - baptized at the upcoming convention but the ... you ... have intervened. But I'm already dedicated and that's the most important thing, right?"

  Jesus: "Why did you not get baptized without delay as soon as you qualifed?"

  Person: "That's not how its done in the organization. The person has to wait until the next assembly or convention"

  Jesus: "Did my faithful Witness, Cornelius, wait until the next convention? Did you never read of what Candace's attendant said to Philip when he qualified: "What prevents me from getting baptized?" You let men prevent you from getting baptized. You have shown greater affection for elders and for organization than for me. You are not worthy of me. Depart from me, you cowardly follower of men! To the lake of fire with you! There is where your weeping and gnashing of teeth will be."

  
  
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  21

  Giving comments at meetings that cause cognitive dissonance while keeping yourself below elder radar for apostasy

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well i'm sure we can come up with clever comments that make people feel uncomfortable by serving to decompartmentalize things that have been compartmentalized in the thinking of the average jw.

  or comments that make the cognitive dissonance stand out plainly, these have to be said in innocent manner and with an apparent obliviousness to the contradiction.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/compartmentalization_%28psychology%29.

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  Island Man

  Your old friend wasn't subtle enough. His statement clearly implied that Watchtower/JWs are lying when they say 1975 is just apostate rubbish. He went too far. He should have omitted saying "really" and he should have omitted saying "not an apostate rumor". He over did it.
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  71

  Are we heading for III World War?

  by abiather in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the leaders of russia, germany, france and ukraine are slated to meet in minsk (the belarusian capital) tomorrow to discuss a ukrainian peace plan!

  some countries such as hollande believe there is going to be a total war.

  when they met last year in the same place, they had put forward a peace plan (a ceasefire, withdrawal of artillery, prisoner exchanges and other concessions) that were never fully implemented!

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  Island Man

  "After the World War II, Nosterdamus predicted 57 years of peace (In fulfillment we actually experienced PEACE only 56 years and 9 months)"

  So you mean there was no Vietnam war? There was no cold war? There was no Iran-Iraq war? There was no war between North and South Korea? No Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? No war in Lebanon? No war in Liberia and other parts of Africa? Really? Oh how we conveniently re-define peace in such a way as to ignore all the wars that have happened since WWII, just so as to give validation to Nostradamus' prophecies! LOL
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  25

  Do the Rank & File JW's REALLY read and understand the bible to be able to REALLY start a study with someone???

  by ADJUSTMENTS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i believe the average rank & file are illiterate when it come to the bible because they are so used to using the wbats cliff notes... even though i believe the bible is a fiction novel, at least be able to explain a novel you hold is such high regard: i mean jesus!!!

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  Island Man

  No. JWs don't know what bible study is. JWs study Watchtower publications which selectively quote and cite individual bible verses out of context to support Watchtower teachings. The bible is not the focus of their study. The publications are. They merely use (and abuse) the bible to validate the teachings of their organization.

  JWs have a finite collection of bible verses that they are familiar with and that they cite and quote over and over again to support key Watchtower teachings. The rest of the bible is largely unknown to them. They are familiar with just enough of the bible to support Watchtower's teachings.

  Once Watchtower has gotten hold of their minds, any reading of the bible by JWs is then done, not with an honest, open mind, but with a closed mind having Watchtower blinders on. JWs profess to regard the bible as the final authority on doctrine. But the reality of their actions reveal that it is actually Watchtower - "the Society" or "the Organization".

  Show a JW any clear passage of scripture that contradicts a Watchtower teaching and see what the JW will do. He will not accept what the scripture is plainly saying and acknowledge that Watchtower is wrong. No. Instead he will say to himself: "What does the society say about this scripture? Let me check the Watchtower Library and see..." And the JW will accept whatever explanation Watchtower gives, however twisted, however disingenuous, however illogical as being the truth about what the scripture actually means, and he will ignore what the scripture actually very plainly says.